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Share Share. Jonathan Zenti. Alessandro Mantovani Michele Farina. Matteo De Giuli Matteo Moca. Christian Raimo Davide Grillo. Angelo Paura. Argomenti est europa geopolitica.
Today, I no longer have any detailed recollection of this matter, Your Honour, but I know that these gentlemen stood together and sat together, and in very blunt words they referred to the matter, without putting it down in writing.
I would definitely not be able to remember this, if I did not know that at that time I said to myself: Look at that Stuckart, who was always considered to be a very precise and very particular stickler for the law, and here the whole tone and all the manner of speech were totally out of keeping with legal language.
That is the only thing, I would say, which has actually remained imprinted on my mind. There was talk about killing and eliminating and exterminating.
I myself had in fact to make my preparations for drawing up the record - I could not stand there and just listen - but the words did reach me Was this in the official part or not?
I thought it was in the official part, because it appears in the record and It was also in the official part, Your Honour, but the official part, if you like, in turn consisted of two parts - that is to say, the beginning, where everyone kept quiet and had to listen, and then near the end, where everyone spoke about the matter all at once, and where the whole time the orderlies kept serving cognac or other drinks, and it got to the stage of alcoholic influence Yes, that was the case.
The shorthand-typist sat next to me, and I had to ensure that everything was recorded. And after that the shorthand-typist typed this up, and then Heydrich decided what should and what should not be included in the record.
And then he, so to speak, polished it further, and then it was ready, this record of proceedings. Your Honour, this is not the most important point.
What is the most important point in the record Excuse me, I did not say the most important point, I said "an important topic" - so important that it was then left out.
No, on the contrary, Your Honour, Heydrich wanted to make sure that the main points were worked into the record.
So it is in fact precisely the other way round. The essential points are in the record, and the non-essential points were then left out by him, because here, so to say - how shall I put it - he created a form of reinsurance, by pinning down the State Secretaries separately.
There was a discussion about the engine business. I remember that, shooting. About gas I did not know anything, I cannot remember. There was a discussion of the various methods of possible solutions, and on that District Leader Meyer and State Secretary Dr.
Buehler expressed the opinion "that some preparatory work in the course of the Final Solution should be carried out immediately in the relevant areas, but in so doing any alarming of the population should be avoided.
Not imagine, I am still asking you, as the Attorney General also asked you all along, "What can you remember? I had previously seen the preparatory work in the Lublin district, I We have already heard this.
I want to know what happened at this conference, what was said about this at that time. Today, I no longer remember, but I am sure that this matter was discussed.
Where it says, "on the spot, without alarming the population," I cannot imagine the intention being anything else other than such installations, which I had seen shortly before that time.
I did not say anything whatsoever at the Wannsee Conference. I simply could not, neither did I have any authority to do so.
Actually no one reported. Heydrich spoke, and then everyone spoke together; it is possible that - it is possible, but I do not know, that Buehler perhaps said something, and Krueger will definitely also have spoken here, because Krueger, as the Higher Police Leader for the Generalgouvernement, he was in fact to some extent the head of the entire business, on the spot.
Globocnik was in fact subordinate to Krueger, so, as his boss, Krueger must definitely have known about this in detail. But Krueger, according to the list of participants, did not take part in the Wannsee Conference.
But he had previously already been to see Heydrich, and arranged Buehler's participation. And then Heydrich had a lengthy discussion with Krueger; as a result of this I had to send special letters of invitation to Krueger and Buehler.
Now, you have told us that you do not see yourself as an anti-Semite, and also were never an anti-Semite.
You will agree with me that at first sight this would appear to be a paradox - a convinced National Socialist who is not simultaneously a convinced anti-Semite.
I saw in your memoirs that you write that you "devotedly gobbled up the Voelkischer Beobachter newspaper, as you put it. The Voelkischer Beobachter was first and foremost the largest newspaper we had, and it reported in detail on political and overall current world events.
In your memoirs, you speak about the time before you joined the National Socialist Workers' Party. During the so-called period of struggle "Kampfzeit" , I did not only read the Voelkischer Beobachter, I also read the other National Socialist newspapers, and in them read, above all, things about the terror exercised against the SS and the SA.
Just a moment, I thought you had understood my question. The question was about the anti-Semitic material which was printed in such large quantities in the Voelkischer Beobachter.
What was your attitude to that? In Austria this was probably the least-read material, just as the principles of the Party program were hardly read at all, because in Austria it was a question of matters other than these.
They were intended for the national student organizations, yes, that I admit, but the normal professional scarcely bothered about these things.
I, in fact, was one of them, after all, I was not a member of a student organization. What was of concern to you, as you, I believe, said, was the economic plight which was triggered by the Treaty of Versailles.
That is roughly what you said. In addition, there was the fact that I did not become acquainted with anti-Semitism through my parental home.
If I am not mistaken, National Socialist propaganda connected the economic plight with World Jewry. Basically, for the man in the street the deep roots and - the cause - was in fact the least important aspect - it was - this period of unemployment, this was the most important thing.
At that time I was working professionally, for the Vacuum Oil Company, and I had hardly concerned myself with - let us say with intellectual values, except for I had no time for this.
We have heard from you that you are someone who likes to think things over - at that time was this not the case? At that time, when I was travelling repeatedly, I hardly concerned myself at all with all these things.
I pursued my Did you know of those sections of the Party platform which concern Jews - concern the Jewish Question - before you joined the Party?
Before I joined the Party, practically nobody at all, scarcely anyone concerned himself with this. Not "scarcely anyone.
Were you familiar with this, "yes" or "no"? No, because I was to some extent received into the Party against my expectations, and also without making up my mind.
It went so quickly and so suddenly that I I was, in fact, a candidate some time before that. My attitude at that time was like that of many people - the bark is worse than the bite.
That is the briefest way of putting the thought that I could come up with. In other words, that Hitler did not intend to implement this legislation which was passed by the Reichstag according to his ideas.
At that time, like many people who had grown up in Austria, I tended to think that things would not all be implemented along the propaganda lines, and as things are reported; rather, I thought, the bark is worse than the bite.
That was the general point of view of everyone then living in Austria, and in fact, at that time, I had just come from Austria.
Eichmann Interrogated The first part of this page deals with the interrogation of Adolf Eichmann, by Avner Less, a captain in the Israeli police, in May Heydrich ordered Eichmann to pay a visit to see Odilo Globocnik, the Higher SS and Police Leader in Lublin.
Heydrich confirmed that the Fuhrer has already given him instructions, and he wanted Eichmann to check on progress.
Heydrich thought Globocnik was using Russian anti-tank trenches for exterminating the Jews. Eichmann went to Lublin, and located the headquarters of SS Police Commander and reported to Gruppenführer Globocnik.
Eichmann added that Globocnik sent for a certain Sturmbannführer Höfle, who was on the Aktion Reinhardt staff. Eichmann and Höfle went from Lublin to Belzec.
Eichmann described the site: there were patches of woods, sort of, and the road passed through — a Polish highway. A captain of the regular police Ordnungspolizei welcomed us.
This was Christian Wirth. A few workmen were still there. Wirth took off his jacket, and rolled up his sleeves, he joined in the work. They were building little wooden shacks, two, maybe three of them, they looked like two or three room cottages.
Höfle told Wirth to explain the installation to Eichmann, which he did. Wirth had a vulgar, uncultivated voice.
With a dialect from the south-western corner of Germany, and he told me he had made everything airtight.
It seems they were going to hook up a Russian submarine engine and pipe the exhaust into the houses and the Jews inside would be gassed.
Eichmann was unsure whether it was Belzec or Treblinka, but it was Belzec, and it was probably in the beginning of when the gas chambers were finished, awaiting the arrival of the first transports to the camp.
His visit to Belzec was connected with the beginning of the deportations of the Czech Jews from Theresienstadt and mass deportations of the Jews from Slovakia to the Lublin district.
The total number deported was 14, Czech Jews and 39, Slovakian Jews. The second Aktion Reinhardt camp Eichmann visited was the death camp at Treblinka.
Eichmann explained he received orders to pay another visit to Globocnik. He went to see Globocnik in Treblinka, The installations were in operation, and he had to report to Muller.
Instead, again with the same Sturmbannführer Höfle, he arrived at the camp with a railroad station with a sign saying Treblinka, looking exactly like a German railroad station- anywhere in Germany — a replica, with signboards, etc.
He saw a footbridge enclosed in barbed wire and over that footbridge a file of naked Jews was being driven into a big house to be gassed.
Eichmann in Lublin Jacob Frank, a Jewish native of Lublin, was the SS-designated supervisor of the tailoring department of the 7 Lipowa Street labour camp in Lublin.
Frank recalled a inspection of the Lipowa St labour camp that involved Adolf Eichmann, who was escorted by Globocnik, Maubach, Mohwinkel, Schramm, Klein, Hantke, and the Standartenführer von Alvensleben.
Eichmann at Belzec and Treblinka Eichmann admitted that he visited Belzec and Treblinka, during his trial, but not Sobibor, which was at odds with the testimony of Moshe Bahir, whose original name was Shkalek, a former prisoner at Sobibor, who stated that he saw Eichmann at Sobibor in July and in February when RFSS Heinrich Himmler visited the death camp.
A conference was held at the Ministry of Transport in Berlin on September 26 and 28 , to discuss the transportation requirements for the deportation of an additional , Jews from the General Gouvernement and the expulsion of , Jews from Rumania to Belzec.
The conference was attended by Eichmann or Rolf Gunther, Steir of the General Direction of the Ostbahn GEDOB , and headed by Klem of the Ministry of Transport.
These transports will be carried out with the freight cars already made available for this purpose by order of the Directorate of the German railways in Cracow, as far as this is possible.
Upon completion of the repair of the Lublin — Chelm line, about November , the other urgent transports will also be carried out. In so far as this is practicable and the required number of freight cars are available.
With the reduction of the transports of potatoes, it is expected that it will be possible for the special train service to be able to place at the disposal of the Directorate of the German railway in Cracow the necessary freight cars.
Thus the train transportation required will be available in accordance with the above proposals and the plan completed this year.
The deportation of the Rumanian Jews to Belzec did not materialise, due to a number of factors, such as internal squabbles within the Rumanian administration, a protest submitted by the United States, to the Rumanian government in September , and various efforts by Jewish leaders within Rumania.
Many Rumanian Jews were murdered during the pogroms in Rumania for example in Iassi and Bucharest or thousands of them were transferred to Transistria in Ukraine and they were killed in the camps and ghettos there.
In Transistria the Rumanians killed about The pogroms and mass murder in Rumania stopped only in One of the most important messages intercepted by the British was the year end report on Aktion Reinhardt, sent by Höfle, marked Geheime Reichssache, Reich State Secret to Adolf Eichmann on 11 January This was only partially intercepted, the second message to SS-Obersturmbannführer Heim, BdS Krakau, was probably identical, and whilst coded shows the number of people deported to Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka.
Janina Kielbon: Migracje ludnosci w dystrykcie lubelskim w latach Migrations of the population in the Lublin District in the Years Lublin Konrad Morgen was born on the 8 June in Frankfurt —am — Main, the son of a railroad worker.
He chose a career in the legal profession and graduated from the University of Frankfurt and The Hague Academy of International Law, and became a judge in Stettin.
He was posted to the Hauptamt SS- Gericht the main office of the legal department in Krakow and was responsible for investigating cases of corruption, his tenacity in prosecuting the course of justice earned him the nickname "The Bloodhound Judge".
After a disagreement with Freidrich Wilhelm Kruger — Higher SS and Police Leader East he was posted to the front-line to serve in the SS Wiking Division, but in he was re-assigned to the ReichsKriminalPolizeiAmt RKPA to investigate financial crimes, and was now an Oberstrurmfuhrer.
In July Morgen investigated alleged corruption and irregularities at the Buchenwald Concentration camp in Weimar. Karl Otto Koch the commandant was investigated, as was his wife Ilse, and Koch was found guilty and executed by the SS on the 26 April Also in the summer of Morgen and a team of Kriminalpolizei officers were sent from Berlin to Lublin, following information sent by Johannes Muller, commander of the Sicherheitspolizei in Lublin, who had heard of a Jewish wedding at a camp attended by over 1, guests, including members of the SS.
To his astonishment, Wirth admitted responsibility for the Jewish wedding at the death camp. Morgen asked what all these Jews and the SS unit were doing there at Sobibor, anyway.
Wirth then disclosed to Morgen that on the orders of the Fuhrer he was carrying out the extermination of the Jews. Because of the extent of this — there were unheard of piles of watches stacked up there — I had to realise that something monstrous was going on here.
I was also shown the valuables; I can say that I have never seen so much gold, especially foreign gold.
I saw all kinds of money from all over the world collected together, as well as melted-down gold, whole ingots of gold. I also saw the headquarters from where Wirth directed his operations; it was very small and inconspicuous.
He actually had only three or four people with him. I also talked to them. Hermann Hackmann was also found guilty, and sentenced to serve in an SS penal unit.
By the second half of Morgen went to Auschwitz concentration camp to investigate corruption. He headed a commission consisting of Obersturmfuhrer Reimers, Hauptsturmfuhrer Bartsch and Hauptsturmfuhrer Dr Fischer.
And it was dental gold and then nobody could work out how this dentist had got hold of so much gold and I was supposed to go down there and find out what was behind it.
One morning very early I arrived by train and was very curious to see what sort of place it was and somehow or other you had the feeling that a place where such incredible ghastly things were happening on such a huge scale that it would somehow exude a frightful aura, that there would be something peculiar about it.
But no, there it was, a perfectly ordinary, grey, miserable, dirty industrial town. I explained my business to him and asked him to show me, the whole concentration camp including the extermination machinery.
Then he gave me a chap to guide me round and we made a very thorough tour. The ground was hollowed on an incline, and an outsider would only see that the wagons disappeared into a depression in the ground.
A big door led to the so-called undressing room, where there were numbered places and cloakroom tickets.
Arrows on the wall pointed to the showers. The signs were in six or seven languages. In the enormous crematorium everything was spick and span.
Nothing suggested that thousands of people had been gassed and burned the previous night. Nothing was left of them, not even a speck of dust on the oven fittings.
I wanted to meet the SS people and went to the SS guardroom in Birkenau. There I got my first real shock.
While guardrooms were generally of Spartan simplicity, here SS men lay on couches and dozed, staring ahead glassy-eyed.
Instead of a desk there was a hotel kitchen stove in the room and four or five young Jewesses of Oriental beauty were making potato pancakes and feeding the SS men, who had themselves waited on like pashas.
At my horrified questioning look, my escort simply shrugged his shoulders and said that the men had a hard night behind them, they had to process several transports.
At a final locker check, it turned out in a few lockers, a wealth of gold, pearls rings, and currency of all countries was piled up.
In one or two lockers there were genitals of freshly slaughtered bulls, which were supposed to enhance potency. I had never seen anything like it.
Morgen carried out investigations into corruption at other camps such as Sachsenhausen, Flossenberg, Vught, Dachau and Plaszow, and the list of major SS men investigated is as follows: xxxxxxx tabella xxxxxx After the war he appeared as a witness at the trial of major war criminals in front of the International Military Tribunal in Nuremberg, at the trial of the SS WVHA functionaries, and at the Auschwitz trial in Frankfurt —am — Main in Konrad Morgen died on the 4 February Nacqui a Potsdam il 13 agosto Dal giugno al gennaio , fui Comandante del Sonderkommando 4 A.
I miei ordini erano di fare rapporto in persona ai comandanti della Polizia di Sicurezza e SD, trasmettere verbalmente gli ordini di Mueller, e supervisionare la loro implementazione.
Nel settembre feci rapporto al Dr. Thomas a Kiev e passai l'ordine a lui. In maggio e giugno feci ulteriori viaggi a Kiev per tale questione e infine, dopo conversazioni col Dr.
Thomas e con l'SS e Capo della Polizia, l'ordine venne eseguito. Durante la mia visita in agosto osservai personalmente i corpi che venivano bruciati in una fossa comune presso Kiev.
Questa fossa era lunga circa 55 metri, larga 3 metri e profonda 2,5. Dopo che la copertura era stata rimossa, i corpi furono coperti di materiale infiammabile e fu appiccato il fuoco.
Osservai personalmente il fuoco bruciare fino in fondo. Poi la fossa fu riempita e a quel punto le tracce erano praticamente cancellate.
A causa dell'avanzamento della prima linea non fu possibile continuare a distruggere le fosse comuni a sud e a est, che erano risultate dalle esecuzioni da parte degli Einsatzgruppen.
Viaggiai verso Berlino in questa situazione per fare rapporto, e fui poi mandato in Estonia dal Gruppenfuehrer Mueller.
Trasmisi gli stessi ordini all'Oberfuehrer Achammer-Pierader a Riga, e anche all'Obergruppenfuehrer Jeckeln. Tornai a Berlino per fare rifornimento.
I roghi dei corpi cominciarono solo in maggio o giugno Ricordo che gli incenerimenti venivano effettuati nelle aree di Riga e Reval.
Secondo i miei ordini avrei dovuto estendere i miei doveri sull'intera area occupata dagli Einsatzgruppen, ma a causa della ritirata dalla Russia non potei assolutamente eseguire gli ordini Originariamente, il rapporto che presentiamo fu scritto in un francese zoppicante e incerto.
La scena narrata va collocata intorno al 20 agosto Gerstein era accompagnato da un altro tecnico che lavorava per le SS, il prof.
Due giorni dopo partimmo per Belzec. A sud, vicino alla scarpata, qualche casa di servizio e il cartello: Ufficio Belzec: delle Waffen-SS.
Quel giorno non si videro morti, ma un odore pestilenziale ammorbava tutta la zona. Quindi un corridoio scoperto di metri, chiuso ai due lati da filo spinato, con la scritta: Ai bagni e alle inalazioni.
Davanti a noi un edificio tipo stabilimento per bagni; a destra e a sinistra, grandi vasi con gerani e altri fiori. Sul tetto, la stella di David in ottone.
Quel pomeriggio non scoprii altro. Dietro al filo spinato dei finestrini, visi atterriti di bambini e ragazzi, di donne e uomini.
Il treno si ferma: ucraini incaricati di questo servizio tirano via le portiere e con fruste di cuoio cacciano gli ebrei fuori dalle vetture.
Appaiare le scarpe con pezzetti di spago distribuiti da un bambino ebreo. Consegnare tutti i valori, tutto il denaro allo sportello valori senza riceverne un cenno, una ricevuta.
Si avvicinano. Io e Wirth ci ritroviamo davanti alle camere della morte. Gli domandavano quale sarebbe stata la loro sorte. Le porte vengono chiuse.
Nel frattempo, il resto del carico resta nudo in attesa. Ma niente! Arriva il capitano Wirth. Il mio cronometro stop ha segnato tutto, 50 minuti, 70 minuti, la diesel non si mette in moto!
Gli uomini aspettano invano nelle camere a gas. Dopo 2 ore e 49 minuti — il mio orologio ha registrato tutto — la diesel si mette in moto.
Passano altri 25 minuti. Dopo 28 minuti pochi sopravvivono ancora. Dopo 32 minuti, tutti infine sono morti. Nella morte stessa, si riconoscono ancora le famiglie che si stringono per mano.
Si dura fatica a separarli svuotando le stanze per il carico successivo, si gettano via i corpi bluastri, umidi di sudore e di orina, le gambe piene di sterco e di sangue mestruale.
Due dozzine di inservienti si occupano di controllare le bocche, aprendole con dei ganci di ferro. Altri controllano gli ani e gli organi genitali cercando monete, diamanti, oro ecc.
Voi non immaginate che cosa troviamo ogni giorno tra dollari, diamanti, oro! Vedrete voi stesso! Mi furono presentati anche uno dei direttori del grande magazzino Kufhaus des Westens e un ometto al quale si faceva suonare il violino: i capi dei commandos dei lavoratori ebrei.
COLONEL JOHN HARLAN AMEN Associate Trial Counsel for the United States : May it please the Tribunal, I wish to call as a witness for the Prosecution, Mr.
Otto Ohlendorf AMEN: Will you try to speak slowly and pause between each question and answer. OTTO OHLENDORF: Yes. AMEN: Where were you born?
OHLENDORF: In Hohen-Egelsen. AMEN: How old are you? OHLENDORF: Thirty-eight years old. AMEN: When, if ever, did you become a member of the National Socialist Party?
OHLENDORF: AMEN: When, if ever, did you become a member of the SA? OHLENDORF: For the first time in AMEN: When, if ever, did you become a member of the SS?
OHLENDORF: I must correct my answer to the previous question. I thought you were asking about my membership in the SS. AMEN: When did you become a member of the SA?
OHLENDORF: In the year AMEN: When, if ever, did you join the SD? OHLENDORF: In AMEN: What was your last position in the SD? OHLENDORF: Chief of Amt III in the RSHA AMEN: Did you tell us for what period of time you continued as chief of Amt III?
OHLENDORF: I was part-time chief of Amt III from to AMEN: Turning now to the designation "Mobile Units" with the army shown in the lower right hand corner of the chaart, please explain to the Tribunal the significance of the terms "Einsatzgruppe" and "Einsatzkommando.
The concept of "Einsatzgruppe" first appeared during the Polish campaign. The agreement with the OKH and OKW however, was arrived at only before the beginning of the Russian campaign.
This agreement specified that a representative of the chief of the Sipo and the SD would be assigned to the army groups, or armies, and that this official would have at his disposal mobile units of the Sipo and the SD in the form of an Einsatzgruppe, subdivided into Einsatzkommandos.
The Einsatzkommandos would, on orders from the army group or army, be assigned to the individual army units as needed. AMEN: State, if you know, whether prior to the campaign against Soviet Russia, any agreement was entered into between the OKW, OKH, and RHSA?
OHLENDORF: Yes, the Einsatzgruppen and Einsatzkommandos, as I have just described them, were used on the basis of a written agreement between the OKW, OKH, and RHSA.
AMEN: How do you know that there was such a written agreement? OHLENDORF: I was repeatedly present during the negotiations which Albrecht and Schellenberg conducted with the OKH and OKW; and I also had a written copy of this agreement which was the outcome of these negotiations, in my own hands when I took over the Einsatzgruppe.
AMEN: Explain to the Tribunal who Schellenberg was. What position, if any, did he occupy? OHLENDORF: Schellenberg was, at the end, chief of Amt VI in the RHSA; at the time when he was conducting as the representative of Heydrich, he nelonged to the Amt VI.
AMEN: On approximately what date did these negotiations take place? OHLENDORF: The negotiations lasted several weeks. The agreement must have been reached one or two weeks before the beginning of the campaign.
AMEN: Did you yourself ever see a copy of this written agreement? OHLENDORF: Yes! AMEN: Did you ever have occasion to work with this written agreement?
AMEN: On more than one occasion? OHLENDORF: Yes; in all questions arising out of the relationship between the Einsatzgruppen and the army.
AMEN: Do you know where the original or any copy of that agreement is located today? OHLENDORF: No. AMEN: To the best of your knowledge and recollection, please explain to the Tribunal the entire substance of this written agreement.
OHLENDORF: First of all, the agreement stated that Einsatzgruppen and Einsatzkommandos would be set up and used in the operational areas. This created a precedent, because until that time the army had, on its own responsibility, discharged the tasks which would now fall soley to the Sipo.
The second was the regulations as to competence. AMEN: You're going too fast. What is it that you say the Einsatzkommandos did under the agreement?
OHLENDORF: I said this was the relationship between the army and the Einsatzgruppen and the Einsatzkommandos.
The agreement specified that the army groups or armies would be responsible for the movement and the supply of Einsatzgruppen, but that instructions for their activities would come from the chief of Sipo and the SD.
AMEN: Let us understand. It is correct that an Einsatz group was to be attached to each army group or army? OHLENDORF: Every army group was to have an Einsatzgruppe attached to it.
The army group in its turn would then attach the Einsatzkommandos to th armies of the army group. AMEN: And was the army command to determine the area within which the Einsatz group was to operate?
OHLENDORF: The operational area of the Einsatzgruppe was already determined by the fact that it was attached to a specific army group and therefore moved with it, whereas the operational areas of the Einsatzkommandos were fixed by the army group or army.
AMEN: Did the agreement also provide that the army command was to direct the time during which they were to operate? OHLENDORF: That was included under the heading "movement.
AMEN: And, also, to direct any additional tasks that they were to operate? OHLENDORF: Yes. Even though the chiefs of Sipo and SD had the right to issue instructions to them on their work, there existed a general agreement that the army was also entitled to issue orders to the Einsatzgruppen if the operational situation made it necessary.
AMEN: What did the agreement provide with respect to the attachment of the Einsatz group command to this army command?
OHLENDORF: I can't remember whether anything specific was contained in the agreement about that. At any rate a liason man between the army command and the SD was appointed.
AMEN: Do you recall any other provisions of this written agreement? OHLENDORF: I believe I can state the main contents of that agreement.
AMEN: What position did you occupy with respect to this agreement? OHLENDORF: From June to the death of Heydrich in June , I led Einsatzgruppe D, and was the representative of the chief of the Sipo and the SD with the 11th Army.
AMEN: And when was Heydrich's death? OHLENDORF: Heydrich was wounded at the end of May , and died on 4 June AMEN: How much advance notice, if any, did you have of the campaign against Soviet Russia?
OHLENDORF: About four weeks. AMEN: How many Einsatz groups were there, and who were their respective leaders?
OHLENDORF: There were four Einsatzgruppen, Groups A, B, C, and D. Chief of Einsatzgruppe A was Stahlecker; chief of Einsatzgruppe B was Nebe; chief of Einsatzgruppe C, Dr.
Rasche, and later, Dr. Thomas; chief of Einsatzgruppe D I myself, and later Bierkamp. AMEN: To which army was Group D attached?
OHLENDORF: Group D was not attached to any army group but was attached directly to the 11th Army. AMEN: Where did Group D operate?
OHLENDORF: Group D operated in the southern Ukraine. AMEN: Will you describe in more detail the nature and extent of the area in which Group D originally operated, naming the cities or territories?
OHLENDORF: The northernmost city was Cernauti; then southward through Mohilev-Podolsk, Yampol, then eastward Zuvalje, Czervind, Melitopol, Mariopol, Taganrog, Rostov, and the Crimea.
AMEN: What was the ultimate objective of Group D? OHLENDORF: Group D was held in reserve for the Caucasus, for an army group which was to operate in the Caucasus.
AMEN: When did Grooup D commence to move into Soviet Russia? OHLENDORF: Group D left Duegen on 21 June and reached Pietra Namsk in Romania in three days.
There the first Einsatzkommandos were already being demanded by the army, and they immediately set off for the destinations named by the army.
The entire Einsatzgruppe was put into operation at the beginning of July. AMEN: You are referring to the 11th Army?
AMEN: In what respects, if any, were the official duties of the Einsatz groups concerned with Jews and Communist commissars? OHLENDORF: The instructions were that in the Russian operational areas of the Einsatzgruppen the Jews, as well as the Soviet political commissars, were to be liquidated.
AMEN: And when you say "liquidated" do you mean "killed"? OHLENDORF: Yes, I mean "killed". AMEN: Prior to the opening of the Soviet campaign, did you attend a conference at Pretz?
OHLENDORF: Yes, it was a conference at which the Einsatzgruppen and the Einsatzkommandos were informed of their tasks and were given the necessary orders.
AMEN: Who was present at that conference? OHLENDORF: The cjiefs of the Einsatzgruppen and the commanders of the Einsatzkommandos and Streckenbach of the RHSA who transmitted the orders of Heydrich and Himmler.
AMEN: What were those orders? OHLENDORF: Those were the general orders of the normal work of the Sipo and the SD, and in addition the liquidation order which I have already mentioned.
AMEN: And that conference took place on approximately what date? OHLENDORF: About three or four days before the mission.
AMEN: So that before you commenced to march into Soviet Russia you received orders at this conference to exterminate the Jews and Communist functionaries in addition to the regular professional work of the Security Police and SD; is that correct?
AMEN: Did you, personally, have any conversation with Himmler respecting any communication from Himmler to the chiefs of army groups and armies concerning this mission?
Himmler told me that before the beginning of the Russian campaign Hitler had spoken of this mission to a conference of the army groups and the army chiefs - no, not the army chiefs but the commanding generals - and had instructed the commanding generals to provide the necessary support.
AMEN: So that you can testify that the chiefs of the army groups and the armies had been similarly informed of these orders for the liquidation of the Jews and Soviet functionaries?
OHLENDORF: I don't think it is quite correct to put it in that form. They had no orders for liquidation; the order for the liquidation was given to Himmler to carry out, but since this liquidation took place in the operational area of the army group or the armies, they had to be ordered to provide support.
Moreover, without such instructions to the army, the activities of the Einsatzgruppen would not have been possible. AMEN: Did you have any other conversation with Himmler concerning this order?
OHLENDORF: Yes, in late summer of Himmler was in Nikolaiev. He assembled the leaders and men of the Einsatzkommanos, repeated to them the liquidation order, and pointed out that the leaders and men who were taking part in the liquidation bore no personal responsibility for the execution of this order.
The responsibility was his, alone, and the Führer's. AMEN: And you yourself heard that said? AMEN: Do you know whether this mission of the Einsatz group was known to the army group commanders?
OHLENDORF: This order and the execution of these orders were known to the commanding general of the army.
AMEN: How do you know that? OHLENDORF: Through conferences with the army and through instructions that were given by the army on the execution of the order.
AMEN: Was the mission of the Einsatz groups and the agreement between OKW, OKH, and RSHA known to the other leaders in the RSHA? OHLENDORF: At least some of them knew it, since some of the leaders were also active in the Einsatzgruppen and Einsatzkommandos in the course of time.
Furthermore, the leaders who were dealing with the organization and legal aspects of the Einsatzgruppen also knew of it. AMEN: Most of the leaders came from the RSHA, did they not?
OHLENDORF: Which leaders? AMEN: Of the Einsatz groups? OHLENDORF: No, one can't say that. The leaders of in the Einsatzgruppen and Einsatzkommandos came from all over the Reich.
AMEN: Do you know whether the mission and the agreement were known to Kaltenbrunner? OHLENDORF: After his assumption of office Kaltenbrunner had to deal with these questions and consequently must have known details of the Einsatzgruppen which were offices of his.
AMEN: Who was the commanding officer of the 11th Army? OHLENDORF: At first, Riter von Schober; later Von Manstein.
AMEN: Will you tell the Tribunal in what way or ways the command officer of the 11th Army directed or supervised Einsatz Group D in carrying out its liquidation activities?
OHLENDORF: An order from the 11th Army was sent to Nikolaiev that liquidations were to take place only at a distance of not less than two hundred kilometeres from the headquarters of the commanding general.
AMEN: Do you recall any other occasions? OHLENDORF: In Simferopol the army command requested the Einsatzkommandos in its area to hasten liquidations, because famine was threatening and there was a great housing shortage.
AMEN: Do you know how many persons were liquidated by Einsatz Group D under your command? OHLENDORF: In the year between June to June the Einsatzkommandos reported ninety thousand people liquidated.
AMEN: Did that include men, women, and children? AMEN: On what do you base those figures? OHLENDORF: On reports sent by the Einsatzkommandos to the Einsatzgruppen.
AMEN: Were those reports submitted to you? AMEN: And you saw them and read them? OHLENDORF: I beg your pardon? AMEN: And you saw and read those reports personally?
AMEN: And it is on those reports that you base the figures you have given the Tribunal? AMEN: Do you know how those figures compare with the number of persons liquidated by other Einsatzgruppen?
OHLENDORF: The figures which I saw of other Einsatzgruppen are considerably larger. AMEN: That was due to what factor? OHLENDORF: I believe that to a large extent the figures submitted by the other Einsatzgruppen were exaggerated.
AMEN: Did you see reports of liquidations from the other Einsatz units from time to time? AMEN: And those reports showed liquidations exceeding those of Group D; is that correct?
AMEN: Did you personally supervise mass executions of these individuals? OHLENDORF: I was present at two mass executions for purposes of inspection.
AMEN: Will you explain in detail to the Tribunal how an individual mass execution was carried out? OHLENDORF: A local Einsatzkommando attempted to collect all the Jews in its area by registering them.
This registration was performed by the jews themselves. AMEN: On what pretext, if any, were they rounded up? OHLENDORF: On the pretext that they were to be resettled.
AMEN: Will you continue? OHLENDORF: After the registration the Jews were collected at one place; and from there they were later transported to the place of execution, which was, as a rule, an antitank ditch or a natural excavation.
The executions were carried out in a military manner, bu firing squads under command. AMEN: In what way were they transported to the place of execution?
OHLENDORF: They were transported to the place of execution in trucks, always only as many as could be executed immediately.
In this way it was attempted to keep the span of time from the moment in which the victims knew what was about to happen to them until the time of their actual execution as short as possible.
AMEN: Was that your idea? AMEN: And after they were shot what was done with the bodies? OHLENDORF: The bodies were buried in the antitank ditch or excavation.
AMEN: What determination, if any, was made as to whether the persons were actually dead? OHLENDORF: The unit leaders or the firing-squad commanders had orders to see to this and, if need be, finish them off themselves.
AMEN: And who would do that? OHLENDORF: Either the unit leader himself or somebody designated by him. AMEN: In what positions were the victims shot?
OHLENDORF: Standing or kneeling. AMEN: What was done with the personal property of the persons executed? OHLENDORF: All valuables were confiscated at the time of the registration or the rounding up and handed over to the Finance Ministry, either through the RSHA or directly.
At first the clothing was given to the population, but in the winter of it was collected and disposed of by the NSV. AMEN: All their personal property was registered at that time?
OHLENDORF: No, not all of it, only valuables were registered. AMEN: What happened to the garments which the victims were wearing when they went to the place of execution?
OHLENDORF: They were obliged to take off their outer garments immediately before the execution. AMEN: All of them? OHLENDORF: The outer garments, yes.
AMEN: How about the rest of the garments they were wearing? OHLENDORF: The other garments remained on the bodies. AMEN: Was that true of not only your group but of the other Einsatz groups?
OHLENDORF: That was the order in my Einsatzgruppe. I don't know how it was done in other Einsatzgruppen. AMEN: In what way did they handle it.
OHLENDORF: Some of the unit leaders did not carry out liquidations in the military manner, but killed the victims singly by shooting them in the back of the neck.
AMEN: And you objected to that procedure? OHLENDORF: I was against that procedure, yes. AMEN: For what reason?
OHLENDORF: Because, both for the victims and for those who carried out the executions, it was, psychologically, an immense burden to bear.
AMEN: Now, what was done with the property collected from the Einsatzkommandos from these victims? OHLENDORF: All valuables were sent to Berlin, to the RSHA or to the Reich Ministy of Finance.
The articles which could not be used in the operational area, were disposed of there. AMEN: For exemple, what happened to gold and silver taken from the victims?
OHLENDORF: That was, as I have just said, turned over to Berlin, to the Reich Ministry of Finance. OHLENDORF: I can remember that it was actually handled in that way from Simferopol.
AMEN: How about watches, for example, taken from the victims? OHLENDORF: At the request of the army, watches were made available to the forces at the front.
AMEN: Were all victims, including the men, women, and children executed in the same manner? OHLENDORF: Until the spring of , yes. Then an order came from Himmler that in the future women and children were to be killed only in gas vans.
AMEN: How had women and children been killed previously? OHLENDORF: In the same was as the men - by shooting. AMEN: What, if anything, was done about burying the victims after they had been executed?
OHLENDORF: The kommandos filled the graves to efface the signs of execution, and then labor units of the population leveled them. AMEN: Referring to the gas vans that you said you received in the spring of , what order did you receive in respect to the use of these vans?
OHLENDORF: These vans were in the future to be used for killing of women and children. AMEN: Will you explain to the Tribunal the construction of these vans and their appearance?
OHLENDORF: The actual purpose of these vans could not be seen from the outside. They looked like closed trucks, and were so constructed that at the start of the motor, gas was conducted into the van causing death in ten to fifteen minutes.
AMEN: Explain in detail just how one of these vans was used for an execution. OHLENDORF: The vans were loaded with the victims and driven to the place of burial, which was usually the same as that used for the mass executions.
The time needed for transportation was sufficient to insure the death of the victims. AMEN: How were the victims induced to enter the vans? OHLENDORF: They were told that they were to be transported to another locality.
AMEN: How was the gas turned on? OHLENDORF: I am not familiar with technical details. AMEN: How long did it take to kill the victims ordinarily?
OHLENDORF: About ten to fifteen minutes; the victims were not conscious of what was happening to them. AMEN: How many people could be killed simultaneously?
OHLENDORF: About fifteen to twenty-five persons. The vans varied in size. AMEN: Did you revceive reports from those persons operating the vans from time to time?
OHLENDORF: I didn't understand the question. AMEN: Did you receive reports from those who were working on the vans? OHLENDORF: I received the report that the Einsatzkommandos did not willingly use the vans.
AMEN: Why not? OHLENDORF: Because the burial of the victims was a great ordeal for the members of the Einsatzkommandos.
AMEN: Now, will you tell the Tribunal who furnished these vans to the Einsatz groups? OHLENDORF: The gas vans did not belong to the motor pool of the Einsatzgruppen but were assigned to the Einsatzgruppe as a special unit, headed by the man who had constructed the vans.
The vans were assigned to the Einsatzgruppen by the RSHA. AMEN: Were the vans supplied to all of the different Einsatz groups?
OHLENDORF: I am not certain. I know only in the case of Einsatzgruppe D, and indirectly that Einsatzgruppe C also made use of these vans Referring to your previous testimony, will you explain to the Tribunal why you believe that the type of execution ordered by you, namely, military, was preferable to the shooting-in-the-neck procedure adopted by the other Einsatz groups?
OHLENDORF: On the one hand, the aim was that the individual leaders and men should be able to carry out the executions in a military manner acting on orders and should not have to make a decision of their own; it was, to all intents and purposes, an order which they were to carry out.
On the other hand, it was known to me that through the emotional excitement of the executions ill treatment could not be avoided, since the victims discovered too soon that they were to be executed and could not therefore endure prolonged servous strain.
And it seemed intolerable to me that individual leaders and men should in consequence be forced to kill a large number of people on their own decision.
AMEN: In what manner did you determine which were the Jews to be executed? OHLENDORF: That was not part of my task; but the identification of the Jews was carried out by the Jews themselves, since the registration was handled by a Jewish Council of Elders.
AMEN: Did the amount of Jewish blood have anything to do with it? OHLENDORF: I can't remember the details, but I believe that half-Jews were also considered as Jews.
AMEN: What organization furnished most off the officer personnel of the Einsatz groups and Einsatzkommandos? OHLENDORF: I did not understand the question.
AMEN: What organization furnished most of the officer personnel of the Einsatz groups? OHLENDORF: The officer personnel was furnished by the State Police, the Kripo, and, to a lesser extent by the SD.
AMEN: Kripo? OHLENDORF: Yes, the State Police, the Criminal Police and, to a lesser extent, the SD. AMEN: Were there any other sources of personnel?
OHLENDORF: Yes, most of the men by the Waffen SS and the Ordnungspolizie. The State Police and the Kripo furnished most of the experts and the troops were firnished by the Waffen SS and the Ordungspolzei.
AMEN: How about the Waffen SS. OHLENDORF: The Waffen SS and the Ordungspolzei were each supposed to supply the Einsatzgruppen with one company.
AMEN: How about the Order Police. OHLENDORF: The Ordnungspolzei also furnished the Einsatzgruppen with one company.
AMEN: What was the size of Einsatz Group D and its operating area as compared with other Einsatz groups? OHLENDORF: I estimate that Einsatzgruppen D was one-half or two-thirds as large as the other Einsatzgruppen.
That changed in the course of time since some of the Einsatzgruppen were greatly enlarged. AMEN: May it please the Tribunal, relating to organizational matters which I think would clarify some of the evidence which has already been in part received by the Tribunal.
But I don't want to take the time of the Tribunal unless they feel that they want any more such testimony. I thought perhaps if any members of the Tribunal had any questions they would ask the witness directly because he is the best informed on these organizational matters of anyone who will be presented in court THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Amen, the Tribunal does not think that it is necessary to go further into the organizational questions at this stage, but it is a matter that must be really decided by you because you know what nature of the evidence which you are considering is.
So far as the Tribunal is concerned, they are satified at the present stage to leave the matter where it stands, but there is one aspect of the witness's evidence which the Tribunal would like you to investigate, and that is whether the practices by which he has been speaking continued after , and for how long.
AMEN: [To the witness] Can you state whether the liquidation practices that you have described continued after and, if so, for how long a period oftime thereafter?
OHLENDORF: I don't think that the basic order was ever revoked. But I cannot remember the details- at least not with regard to Russia - which would enable me to make concrete statements on this subject.
The retreat began very shortly thereafter, so that the operational region of the Einsatzgruppen became ever smaller. I do know, however, that other Einsatzgruppen with similiar orders had been envisaged for other areas.
AMEN: Your personal knowledge extends up to what date?